I have some money coming in some time in the next few months and am thinking about a new engine and transmission for Ginger. Thinking 393W or 408W AOD or maybe a 5 speed. So any one with recommendations for crate engines or builder in the Seattle area please chime in. The goal is a fun street driver with good manors. Not an over the top all out 1/4 miler. My plans are to drive her like I do mow but with more power and confidence on long cruses. Maybe some where around 375 to 400 horses and not needing to spin up high to have fun.
I like the idea of swapping in the 5 speed, but know it would have more challenges then a built AOD. I look forward to hearing what you folks think.Thanks.
What motor is in Ginger now? Don’t know about any builders in Seattle area, but a simple 408W would be an incredible motor. 165-185cc intake runner heads, with 58-62cc combustion chambers and a 274-ish cam would put you well into the 400HP range at sea level and still maintain your smooth idle.
As for transmissions, if it were my build and I were to do a 5 speed. I would go with the Tremec T-5 from 80’s-90’s Mustangs. Very stout trans from the factory and can easily handle 400+ horse for years and years.
AOD is what I’m going to put in my 67, and for auto transmissions, I have always gone with TCI. They make a very reasonably priced street/strip AOD transmission capable of handling that kind of power and torque.
Thakns Tweeder, Ginger has a getting a little tired 351W, basicly stock but a Performer 351 intake and a Hollie 600 vac secendary 4V, and dual exhaust.
From the research I’ve done you will want the 408w vs 393w. Like tweeder said you can go pretty mild on the 408w and get 400hp. Jim woods owns Fordstrokers http://www.fordstrokers.com/ can set you up with a combo or he can build the whole engine for you. You will most likely be around the $6,000 price range for a 400 hp 408w stroker.
I’m currently building my 408w but will be in the 550 - 600 hp range.
I’m not sure if you’d be willing to cross the border or not but Richmond engines in Langley bc is a great shop to deal with and I’ll absolutely talk to him myself when the time comes. Probably 3 or 4 hours north of you though
Neal, are looking to retain the original block and as many parts as possible? Since your HP requirements are very reasonable you can probably get away with it. In that scenario, I’d spend my money on a nice set of heads, valvetrain, and machine shop time for the bottom end. Raise the CR to 10.5:1, figure out the trans (AOD or T-5), rear gears & cam it to match, slap on a set of headers & we’ll c ya on the highways.
Crate motors are tempting, but having a properly selected combo given your specific configuration is a tough act to beat…
The 408W + TKO 600 5 speed is exactly what I’m doing for my '69 standard. I had my 408W built for me and its probably structurally overbuilt, main girdle, rocker stud girdle, etc. But I know I could throw more at it without worry. I think the cam is a touch small at 224/232 duration at 0.050 lift with valve lift in the 0.560-0.570 range I think.
Thanks everyone. I am going with the crate engine so I can keep the numbers matching engine for who ever gets this car down the road. As I don’t think I’ll be mashing gears I’m thinking the AOD will be what I want. I should have my new lift installed in the next few weeks. Then I’ll order the engine and transmission. (sorry Bob, No need for your B,I,L, here.
Pontiac Ed
The 408W + TKO 600 5 speed is exactly what I’m doing for my '69 standard. I had my 408W built for me and its probably structurally overbuilt, main girdle, rocker stud girdle, etc. But I know I could throw more at it without worry. I think the cam is a touch small at 224/232 duration at 0.050 lift with valve lift in the 0.560-0.570 range I think.
Do you have information and a parts list for the TKO 600 install? I could be persuaded to go this route. If not in Ginger then maybe the convertible. I have a top loader set up hanging around, but need some clutch linkage stuff.
I can chase down the particulars but the transmission & kit came from Modern Driveline. I am using stock style clutch linkage and have the rollerized Z bar and related bits. It can be tough to find the proper pedal assembly but you can cut down an AT brake pedal and hang a repo clutch pedal on your existing AT pedal assembly.
i decided to go with a 5 speed, going with a T-5Z. Next year I’ll do the engine. The kit is from Modern Drive line, I got it from CJ pony parts, I got the transmission from Summit racing as CJ could not give a solid shipping date. I have almost all the parts for the transmission swap now, the rest will be here tomorrow. All just small items like the bushings for the clutch peddle and peddle pads and trim rings. I spent this evening cleaning up the underside of Ginger, I plan to run her in to town tomorrow and pressure wash the underside as well. I will be doing the swap this weekend. I will still need a drive shaft, but will get that done next week or so. 20150521_194624_HDR
She is up on the lift at this time, 20150521_194755_HDR
Parts, Parts Parts. As I will be running this engine for another year I am going to replace the leaky oil pan gaskets and timing cover gaskets and front seal. If the timing chain is loose I have another new one here too. 20150521_194539_HDR
If anyone knows where I can get a T-handle like this one with the 5 speed pattern in it I’d like to know who has them. I like the look, it goes with the theme I have been using on the car. Look like it could be stock.
On my way home today I stopped at Harbor Freight and bought a Magnetic base and a digital indicator. When I got home the rest of the parts were here. I hope I have it all now. I got Ginger down of the lift and drove her for the last time with the old automatic. Went to the local pressure washer and cleaned her up on the underside some more.
Came home and put her back up on the lift.
I spent a little time getting things ready for pulling her apart in the morning.
I’ll have pictures tomorrow evening.
Neal sounds like you have an exciting weekend planned. I look forward to your progress pictures. I’m sure it will help a lot of people that want to do this type of swap.
Steven
I had quite the day today. Slept in to about 6:00 am. Went down tot he shop and started on this little project. DSC_0201
This is how it looks underneath DSC_0188
I plan to change the exhaust from the manifolds to the mufflers so I hacked it out with the sawsall. DSC_0205 DSC_0210
I got all the work done underneath and lowered her down and started under the hood. DSC_0207
Getting close… DSC_0214
A lot of parts came off, You don’t have to remove all the parts like I did. But as I plan to open up the engine they would have come off any way. DSC_0217
It’s out and ready to take apart. DSC_0219
An empty engine bay, I will be spending some time tomorrow cleaning this up anddo some detailing. DSC_0221
I got the engine and transmission apart. I was going to put the engine on the stand, but I forgot to get some bolts. I’ll have to go get them in the morning. DSC_0227
I think I will have some problems with the old MAW syndrome(may as well). But I want her back on the road by the end of June. After all the power train is back in I will have to have a drive shaft made and then some better gears. This Cougar is a factory trac-loc car. I think I’ll have my extra 9" center built up with better gearing and a new trac-loc of some sore and put this one in the convertible.
This project can be done with out removing the engine. But as I want to seal up my engine, it seamed to me that this was a good way to go. I found some interesting things, like the doughnuts that seal the exhaust manifolds to the head pipes are not the same, 1 was a 2 1/4" the other was a 2" This is the first time I have had the exhaust off the car. I have extras. I also found that both the engine and transmission are VIN stamped for this car. I will be putting the old FMX away for prosperity. The next owner may want it.
Today the only thing I got done was removing the console and shifter. I spent a good 4 1/2 hours at the car show. Pics later. When I got home I noticed the lawn was looking shabby and spent some time on that.
This is now, DSC_0260
This is before(older picture) DSC_0007
I put the wood shifter handle in my Convertible. Incidental, As I’ve been getting flack about the hard top being named Ginger, I have now named the convertible Mary Ann.(my brother put me over the edge on this one) There will be no Mrs Howell or Skipper in my shop.
This evening I jumped in on the peddles. I am using a reproduction clutch peddle from Modern Driveline. It is a little
different from the factory one, but a direct replacement. This is what I started with.
I removed th eold trim and pad. I used the new pad to mark the peddle where to cut. If you look closely you can see the line.
I put down some drop cloths and an old floor mat to catch the shavings. after cutting I filed the cut to clean the sharp edges up and rounded the top and bottom corners. I’m now at the point of no return…
I them wire brushed the surface rust and painted it with Eastwoods Rust Encapsulator.
Next was on to the clutch peddle… Here you see the peddle on the left and the cable adapter to the right.
The cable adapter needs to catch the top of the peddle, The stock spring mount prevents this so it has to be trimmed of. Note the mark ups on this picture.
The Blue tape marks where to trim.
After trimming, I then painted it to prevent rusting.
The finished product bolted together. It has to come apart to bolt the peddle in to the car.
I would recomend removing the drivers seat to install this, I didn’t and was able to get it done. But it was mostly by Braille. You need to use new bushings or convert to roller bearings. Make sure you tighten down the hanger bolt or the peddle will be sloppy. Then bolt the adapter to the peddle. Install your peddle pads and trim rings. You will have something like this.
Next I’ll be installing the cable. For that I’ll have to pull off the master cylinder and booster. I’ll be detailing them before they go back on. So it may be a couple days before the next update.
So I have been working away on this swap. Today I got the bellhouse on the engine and checked my run out. I got 0.003. Under the required 0.005. So I think it is good. The problem I have now is this,
This is all the further the yoke will slide in to the tail housing. It hits something solid at about 1.40 inch in. When I look in, it looks like solid metal ring like the end of a bushing. But the same Diameter as the out put shaft, no room for the yoke to slide in. I can’t see 1.40 inch being what is needed for the yoke to slip in and out.
I have a lot of pictures and story to go with them. I hope to get them up later this week. I have the clutch cable installed and the T-5 bolted to the engine.
