Hi everyone,
I just picked up a 1968 base model with a 302, 2 barrel. Drove it from NC to PA without any drama so that was a good first test. Car seems to be solid with a 20 year old “restoration” which consisted of a repaint and engine rebuild and some new interior parts. All in all a fine driver with “good bones”. Now that it’s home I’ve made a (long) list of things that will need to be refreshed and/or worked on. First up is getting the car running well. Car runs real well at highway speeds (although seems to run rich) but doesn’t idle too well and hesitates or surges at about 45-50 MPH. So far have changed plugs and plugs wires. Also tightened down the loose distributor (timed by ear/vac pressure since I cannot see the timing pointer completely hidden behind A/C bracket (I’ll deal with that another day). Vacuum pressure at the intake is right around 15-16 which I believe is a little low. I’ll have to check for leaks and see it I can get it higher.
Before I deal with my carb I want to make sure my ignition system is fully functional. I’m interested in your thoughts on the various points replacement systems (PerTronix Ignitor (I, II,III), Accel, Mallory E-spark and Crane Cam XR-i). I know that PerTronix is the big seller. Mallory’s system uses LED vs. Hall Effect used by the others. Crane Cam systems provides a rev limiter for a price cheaper than the Ignitor I. I’ve heard the Ignitor I can fail is the key is left on so for absent-minded me I’d want the Ignitor II. Does anyone know if any of the other systems have this problem? Does anyone have experience with anything other than PerTronix? Anything else I need to think about?
Thanks.
For the best bang for the buck, Pertronix I is an excellent replacement for points with your existing wiring. The Pertronix II requires a full 12V to run properly, so you’ll have to bypass a pink resistor wire in the underdash harness that routes power to the coil. That can be a pain.
I ran a P I for 10+ years without a problem. Some carry a spare set of points just in case the P I fails.
Even though the Pertornix Ignitor will work with the current distributor wiring on a stock engine, it is highly advisable to run a dedicated 12 volts to the ignitor. The easiest way to run a dedicated 12 V to the ignitor when the ignition switch is in the Run or Start mode, is to use the Starter Relays “I” post as a trigger wire wired to a relay.
First buy a Bosch style Single Pole Single Throw (SPST) 12 V Relay. I was at Fry’s Electronics this morning and in the Car stereo aisle, they sell a 12 V 30 A relay with harness all for only $5.
Next you will need to add butt splices to the wires to make the wire harness lengths fit your vehicle. Wire the harness as follows:
Relay Terminal # Location
30 Battery Pos cable or Battery Side of Starter relay. Note, I spliced an inline fuse between the battery connector and the Relay.
85 To Ground
86 To Starter Solenoid I post. This post is energized when in the ignition switch is in the Start or Run mode.
87 To Pertronix Ignitor
I use the Pertronix Ignitor I in my 67. The Ignitor II will protect your electronics should you leave the key ON. The Ignitor III has an adjustable Rev limiter.
Coach Jack
Do the other systems I mentioned need these work-arounds?
Seems like failed engineering on PerTronix’s part if they didn’t figure out how to make the system work in the cars they are selling it for (without rewiring). But if they all need 12V wiring then the same would apply.
Great question, I would love to upgrade the old points/condenser system in my car, but don’t want all that extra wiring under ny hood. Need to keep things looking right.
I installed the Pertronix Ignitor II and the RCCI Pedapter to eliminate the need to cut or splice any wires. It does result in some new wires being run around the engine compartment (a 12V lead from battery side of solenoid to the Pedapter & a 12V lead from Pedapter to the 12V wire of the Pertronix), but I felt it was a sensible trade off for reliability and reduced maintenance. And it can easily be undone to return the car to points/condenser if desired.
If you run anything directly off of the battery, you better fuse the line. Nothing in the car’s wiring harness is spliced or removed.
When installing a 12 V Relay, the installation is exactly like the Pedapter. Note the pedadapter uses the wire from the ignition switch to the coil as its trigger, which can also be used as the trigger with the 12 V relay. Yes the Pedadpter provides 9V to the stock coil and 12 V output to the ignitor whereas the relay provides only 12 V switched output on terminal 87. The cost difference, I only paid $5 bucks for the relay and the relay harness.
Coach Jack
Pertronix also sells a relay kit. You can do it yourself easily enough, but be sure to use wire rated for 105 degrees C under the hood. It won’t melt as easily as the typical vinyl jacketed stuff. Fuses are never a bad idea.
The absolute lowest cost, cleanest install, solution is to run a new wire from the back side of the ignition switch out to the Pertronix. Run it through the same grommet as the factory harness that feeds the coil.
From what I read on other sites it seems that the Mallory/Accel (identical) systems require using the resistance wire so it seems they would not require all the rewiring the is needed (or recommended) for the Pertronix. I think the Crane keeps it too.
I put a Pertronix in my Mallory, and didn’t have to do any of the fenagling everyone is saying. Seemed to run fine for me…or at least until that rod cap let go…
Decarguy, what we are talking about here is running exactly one wire from under the dash to the engine compartment. You really should not let this intimidate you. Compared to getting a new distributor installed and correctly timed, the wire is a snap. Check out this old thread:
https://cccforum.discoursehosting.net/t/pertronix-pointless-ignition-module/3968/3
xr7g428, It’s not that I’m intimidated, it’s just that if there are other products that perform the same result that don’t require the extra wiring why would I pick the harder one. So far I haven’t heard too much about the Accel, Mallory or Crane systems from this community…I guess not too many people are using them. I’m wondering why since they seem easier to deal with.
I have an accel electronic distributor in one car and a procomp in another. Both needed a 12 volt source like the Pertronix
Millions of cars have driven millions of miles using points. Unless you are running above 4000 rpm all the time I personally don’t see the need to change. I’ve had two bad Mallory control units, heat sensitive Pertronix coil, starter run on with the Pertronix (which the Pertronix folks sent me a diode to install). I use Accel points with a full contact disk, no hole for so-called cooling and have driven years with no issues.
ClawIt, I’m not committed to a points replacement system. In fact, I’ve read of enough failures to make me wonder if they are worth it. I’ll stick with the points until I get my other issues (vacuum pressure, carb) remedied then I will decide. I don’t plan to put too many miles on the car so the “inconvenience” of points may not be an issue. I was just trying to get a sense of the pros/cons of the various systems.
Thanks.
Hey mo. You put what in your what? LOL
My first experience with Pertronics point eliminator kit was in 1989 when I put a Pertronics 1 in my '65 Ranchero daily driver. I hooked it up per the instructions that came in the box. The wires went to the coil. No extra wiring anywhere. I put ten thousand miles on the car and sold it in 1993. My friend Jimmy still has the car and has driven it more than 100,000 miles. It still runs great, and that is 26 years. I agree there is way to much overthinking here, the Pertronics works great without all that BS. If it is still available I recommend the Pertronics 1 over the later versions.
My green GT-E has a Pertronics 1 running an MSD 6AL. One extra wire is in the engine compartment, the white wire from the MSD box. This has been in service since about 1998.
http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Ignitions/6420_instructions(1).pdf
Well guys I did not worry about any wires etc. I just bought a whole pertronix electronic distributor and dropped it in ,set the timing and off I went. Looks kind of original too…BUD DONT Know if everyone is aware that they make whole distributors instead of just conversion units but they sure do.
You still need to run 12 volts to it, if you install the replacement distributor.
The instructions do make it look like you can just hook the two wires up to the coil and call it good, but if there is a resistor wire you are operating a device intended for 12 volts on about half that. It may work if the charging system is running at peak efficiency putting out 14.6 volts or so, because that moves up the voltage to the device enough to give it a chance. Most of the failures can be traced to low voltage.
Here is what causes the problem. This is the first diagram in the instruction sheet.
People see the picture but they don’t read the instructions:
They need to be using this diagram
And reading these instructions:
When they don’t follow the correct instructions they end up in the troubleshooting section reading this:
